Battle of Hatfield Investigation Society

We’d just like to say a large thank you to the C.B.A. for donating a £1,000 to the Battle of Hatfield Investigation Society. We have been in dialogue with them for some time now and they have encouraged our project since we first got in touch.

Hence it’s only fair that they get timely recognition for their good deed on our site.

Many thanks from all the Committee.

Hello and sorry for the lack of site news recently.

Since our last meeting of the 29th May, progress by the Battle of Hatfield Investigation Society ("BOHIS") and Mercian has been achieved in the following areas :

1/ Having already submitted our claim for £1,000, we've provided the Council for British Archaeology (C.B.A.) with a supportive official letter and we believe that we will have the money next week (w/c 21st July) - so that is great news.

2/ The Diocese have our application (via the Parochial Church Council (P.C.C.)) and have further asked for supportive letters which they now possess. Hence, we await their final decision regarding Non invasive (Ground Penetrating Radar to determine the site of the skeletons) and Invasive work at St. Mary's Church, Cuckney.

3/ Joseph has been to Meden School again, continuing our engagement with the local community regarding their involvement in future events. In addition, they have also furnished a letter of support for our project.

4/ Mercian (our archaeological company) are digging 4 test pits near the centre of Edwinstowe to help determine the age of the village (this week and next). I spent Tuesday (15th July) helping at one of the pits (dug in someone's nice back garden but with full permission !). It will be interesting to see if they can reveal signs of an early Saxon settlement.

5/ Immediately after the Edwinstowe event, Mercian are also excavating the supposed site of St. Edwin's Chapel where Edwin is said to have been temporarily buried after the Battle of Hatfield by his surviving troops.

The earliest mention of this chapel was in 1201 A.D. .

The body (maybe excluding the head) is then said to have been reburied at Whitby Abbey. Edwin's head was possibly detached from his body by Cadwallon and some literature says it was displayed on York's ramparts as proof of his defeat (and then possibly buried at or near the site of York Minster).

It would be very exciting if the Chapel was pinpointed and evidence dated it to the 7th century as it would indicate that the Battle of Hatfield was likely to have occurred at Cuckney. Joseph and I will also be attending that excavation and I will keep you promptly informed of Mercian's progress.

Alternatively, you can keep up with their specific progress over the next few weeks at /www.facebook.com/sherwoodforesthistory

or generally at  /www.facebook.com/Mercianarch

6/ We are genuinely now very close to submitting our Heritage Lottery Fund (H.L.F.) bid. We now have a (required) additional supporting letter from an independent archaeologist and have completed about 80% of our claim document. As the main source of funding is likely to come from this area, we want to get the application right first time, as an amended / corrected application would mean another two months before H.L.F. re-consideration.

This is now our top priority.

We will endeavour to complete the H.L.F. form by the end of next week (25th July). 

7/ We have investigated a lead regarding photos that may have been taken by a local Warsop family of the skeletons uncovered by the 1950 /51 excavations at St. Mary's.Unfortunately, the family have not yet discovered such evidence.

Thanks for your continued interest and support and feel free to get in touch if you have any leads regarding the excavation photos as they would generate some welcome publicity for our cause !

It’s always good to consider alternatives to our belief that the skeletons discovered at St. Mary’s Church in 1951 are the vanquished from the Battle of Hatfield in 632 AD.

This article, courtesy of the Mansfield CHAD and dated 7/1/1953, offers the possibility that the skeletons may represent Norton and Cuckney plague victims from 2 outbreaks in 1601 and 1605.

There is a reference in the article that in 1603 the number of male and female adults in Norton Cuckney Parish was 340 of a possible total population of 536.

As 1603 is after the 1st plague outbreak of 1601 and if we accept a third of all adults had already died by then, it could be that in 1601 the adults were 3/2 * 340 = 510.

Let us assume that the male adults were 50% of those 510 (ie. 255 – we could possibly extend to 300).

The 1951 excavation unearthed at least 200 supposedly uniformly young adult males with perfect sets of teeth. As Stanley Revill says, in his 1975 article, “King Edwin and The Battle of Heathfield”, “The vicar himself counted about 200 skulls” … but they … “did not include those bodies of which Professor Barley saw only the thigh and the leg bones”.

If the skeletons were to be attributed say, to the possibly higher population of the 1601 plague, then the adult (males and females) deaths might have been c. 255 (ie. 510 * a generous 50% mortality rate) / (200 (skull count) + an undetermined number of others represented by the thigh bones etc.. = possibly close to a 100%) .

This seems wholly unlikely. If we consider that the highest plague mortality rate was, “a third” (say 35%) during the Black Death of 1348, then this would put the likely adult male deaths of 1601 at a max. 300 (of the 510) * 35% = 105.

Even allowing for regional disparities we might stretch this from 105 to 150 (50%) adult male plague deaths in 1601, yet we need to explain well over 200 adult male skeletons.

The CHAD article also states that Norton and Cuckney were, “shut off from contact with other parts”. This should mean that plague deaths from outlying villages, such as Holbeck, ought not to have swelled the number of adult male plague victims.

The only way of explaining the matter as plague related would be to say that the 200 + burials unearthed in 1951 were the combined result of the adult male plague victims from both 1601 and 1605.

This would assume that, say, 150 adult males died in 1601 (50%) and another 85 (ie. 50% of the 170 total male adults of 1603), adding to around 235 possible adult male deaths.

Two separate outbreaks of plague might also explain why the burials took place in, “3 or 4 ‘battle’ pits”.

Yet it does not explain why no skeletal remains of women and children were deemed to have been found in 1951 or the total lack of clothing or artefacts discovered.

Furthermore, there was speculation by Revill that there could be as many as 800 skeletons in those, “battle pits”, which would only be explained by a near 100% mortality rate of the total adult population ‘explanation’ (including women) of 510 in 1601 and 340 in 1603.

As the skeletons were also thought to pre-date the existing church (built c. 1150) then this does not support a church burial of 1601 / 1605. As Revill says, “The skeletons were found under the north wall of the church and the footings of the Norman church, and extended outside the church for at least 7 feet.”

Our view is that the plague possibility does not have enough merit to usurp the Saxon battle theory. This concurs with the views of Professor Maurice Barley in his 1951 Thoroton Society article, “Cuckney Church and Castle” .

His opinion regarding the discovery of c. 200 skeletons was that, “The alternative explanation of plague burial seems unlikely. There were too many dead for plague to have carried off at one time in this poor and thinly populated part of the county.

The Nottinghamshire Historian Magazine (NLHA) Spring/Summer 2014 edition – “The Search for the site of the Battle of Haethfelth ..” by Sarah Seaton

Hello Everyone,

Another three articles have been posted in the, "Photos" section under "Media Coverage", called :-

"Twelfth Century War Victims" from the Mansfield Advertiser (closed 1952), dated 15/12/1950 and establishing the very 1st find of skeletons (between 40 and 50) to the previous week.

"Cuckney Church and Castle" (1951) by Professor Maurice Barley, who visited St. Mary's Cuckney during the subsidence operations that revealed the mass graves. (Courtesy : Simon Barley).

The Nottinghamshire Historian Magazine (NLHA) Spring/Summer 2014 edition. "The Search for the site of the Battle of Haethfelth .." (Courtesy : Sarah Seaton)

There are some more articles that Joseph & I have found on our recent travels in Feb. and March 2014 to Nottinghamshire Archives & Nottingham Central Library.

We've sent mails very recently to the Thoroton Society, the Mansfield CHAD, the N.L.H.A. and to the Retford Times, asking for full permission to reproduce their articles past, present or future and electronically or hardcopy. As yet we have only received a response from the N.L.H.A..

Hello All,

The next (and 3rd) meeting of the Battle of Hatfield Investigation Society ("BOHIS" for short) will take place at Cuckney Village Hall on Thursday 29th May at 7:30pm. The agenda will be confirmed shortly.

Joseph & I will also be distributing leaflets, locally, well beforehand.

Thanks for your continued support.

Dear All,

"Where we're at ..."

Whilst there's lots of societal activity and continued external interest in the project, true deliverables are presently a little thin on the ground. We'd love to hold a 3rd meeting soon but would really like to be able to announce some concrete success especially in the permissions and funding arenas. However, we need to balance this against going too long between meetings. We have the offer of the use of Cuckney Village Hall again.

Firstly "Permissions"

Due to unfortunate circumstances, the Parochial Church Council did not get our application in time for review at their meeting of the 20th January. Hence, this will not be assessed until the latter part of March / April.

About a week ago, the Welbeck Estates Company sent us another holding letter, explaining that the Principal who needs to be involved in their decision is not currently available but will be reviewing the matter upon return.

Secondly "Research"

Andy & Sean (from Mercian CIC) plus Joseph & I,visited Nottingham University's Kings Meadow campus on Lenton Lane last Friday (14th) to start our perusal of the 22 box Maurice Barley collection. We completed a review of what we thought were the most interesting c. 20 items of the 44 identified (from about 350 !). To put things in context, Maurice Barley only spent 1 day of his entire career at St. Mary's Cuckney (in 1951), hence, predictably, very little was revealed. However, we cannot leave any stones un-turned, so at least we have that satisfaction.

We also very recently managed to contact Maurice Barley's 2 sons, who kindly confirmed that they did not have any photographs of the skeletons unearthed in 1951.

Joseph has also sent a list of key words & phrases to a Nottinghamshire County Council archivist in preparation for our visit, probably next Friday (28th).

Thirdly, "Media coverage"

We have an article in the just published Spring / Summer 2014 edition of the, "Nottinghamshire Historian", (by the Nottinghamshire Local History Association) written by Sarah Seaton.

Fourthly, "Funding"

Having been asked by English Heritage to restrict our 1st claim for funding to the non invasive work at St. Mary's, Andy has itemised the work involved but still needs to associate a cost against each of these items (which I hope he can do this week). This will help increase our chances of funding success.

A potential Private Company sponsor is gearing up to make a final funding decision very soon.

Hello All,

Joseph and Andy were working very hard yesterday for about 4 hours, filling in forms relating to funding and permissions. Last week we also sent 7 sponsorship letters to a mix of local authorities and commercial enterprises. Centrica promptly sent a very nice letter, which unfortunately was a rejection.  I will be sending a few more targeted sponsorship letters this week. Our aspirational start date of March next year is helping us to focus our efforts, as it's not very far away and we won't be able to start without a substantial sum in our account.

Hence if anyone would like to donate, now is the time. Please see the details on the Donations tab of our web site.

We also have a new member who is conducting research in the Warsop area regarding photos of the skeletons unearthed in 1951. We need these to help maintain the external interest in the project. If you do have any ideas as to their whereabouts please let us know.

We have also sourced some more documents from English Heritage regarding the excavation plans for St. Mary's Church, Cuckney by architects, Caroe and Partners (dated 1950 / 51). We will be purchasing these this week.

A lot of hours are being put in every day (yes, including weekends) and a lot of these are being put in by Joseph (so don't forget to thank him if you see him).

Finally, please remember that every gem of information revealed also means that about 10 dead ends have been  followed up and this is slow and painstaking work.

Hi all,

      If anyone is in possesion of any photos regarding the 1951 excavation of St. Mary's Church, Cuckney or if you know of someone who has got any photos, we would love to see them. Please contact the website leaving your name, address and phone number. We do not want to keep them, only copy them. Thank You. wishing you all the best.